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Art in a Violent World
The Talk Show (BBC Four)
Jonathan Freedland examines how artists respond to violence with
Wim Wenders and Nick Cave
First broadcast Monday 24 March at
8.30pm.
Jonathan Freedland
Good evening. Tonight, what is the artist's
role in a violent world? Should artists create a sanctuary from
conflict or should they confront violence and try to understand
it? With me to discuss these questions are Wim Wenders the filmmaker,
whose work ranges from Paris, Texas to The Buena Vista Social Club.
His exhibition of photographs, Pictures from the Surface of the
Earth is currently showing at London's Haunch of Venison Gallery.
Nick Cave the musician and writer has recently released Nocturama
with his band The Bad Seeds. His music has also featured in several
of Wim Wenders films. Now at a time of global conflict, violent
images are bound to dominate the news, but violence seems to pervade
the rest of our culture too. Films, television and pop music all
dwell on violent images and stories. Are they merely reflecting
a violent world or are they adding to the problem by glorifying
and inspiring conflict? Should art help people escape from the often
ugly reality? Or is escapism and solitude self-indulgent? Now, Wim
Wenders, these images of violence are all around us, even the real
world ones, if you like, on the TV news every night when we watch
it with war in the air, what effect is that having on all of us
do you think?
Wim Wenders
It prepares us, first of all, it makes it look inevitable and it
gives violence some sort of appeal and the more we see it the more
it has of that appeal. You see we have violence happening to us
in our lives, I mean, I had it happen a couple of times to myself
and then it doesn't have that appeal. Violence when it happens is
ugly, sometimes very unprovoked, it comes very sudden, you are never
prepared for it, and afterwards you think you should have reacted
differently.
Jonathan Freedland
What are the couple of episodes you're referring to?
Wim Wenders
I was once attacked with a knife and once with a gun. But these
episodes were so different from anything I've ever seen in movies
and I acted so differently than I ever saw anybody act in movies,
that I think the context of violence in real life is so different
than the one we are used to in movies.
Jonathan Freedland
And what movies are giving is a false, almost easy, approach to
violence make
it…
Wim Wenders
They are giving us…
Jonathan Freedland
… seem easier than it is.
Wim Wenders
…they are giving us a very wrong approach, they are making
it look pretty sexy and violence is ugly and they also never show
us the background. In life, violence has a certain background. It
has a social background, a psychological background, there's a reason
for it, and I love movies who show violence, who show me the reasons
for it. But most of the movies leave the reasons out because they
are not so attractive and they just go for the product of violence
and that is a bad thing, I think.
Jonathan Freedland
Nick Cave, your work is known as being full, or read any review
it's always about brooding and menacing. You've done a record called
'Murder Ballads', violence in language or imagery is in your work.
Are you worried that you are guilty of the kind of thing Wim is
talking about of making it look sort of packaged and less than it
really is?
Nick Cave
First of all, a lot of the violence I have in my music is comic.
There's a sense of humour to it and I would, I would think people
would see that, but also I acknowledge a violence within myself
and I think that violence isn't something out there it’s in
here and it's in us all. Even, even Wim…(laughs)
Jonathan Freedland
He's backing off. (Laughs)
.......
read the whole interview and watch clips at:
BBCFour
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