Wim Wenders's interiew by Michel Boujut
(questions are indeed in French; an English translation
will follow soon)
M.B.Quels ont été tes sentiments
depuis les événements du 11 septembre ?
W.W. I'm angry. Angry about the loss of innocent lives,
by an action of insane dimensions. I was at Ground Zero, I had
a chance to spend a few hours there and see for myself the amount
of destruction, and it was beyond any of my worst nightmares.
It made me angry that in the 21st century medieval minds can
target a "symbol of capitalism", kill thousands of
people in the process and not achieve anything at all, in fact
worsen their own situation and worsen all the causes they're
pretending to stand for. I'm angry about American politics,
who actually fell into the trap that these medieval crusaders
put up for them. I'm angry about that war which makes everything
even sadder and more confused and more injust and does not do
justice to the 5000 dead civilians and firemen, on the contrary.
I'm quoting Martin Luther King: "Darkness cannot drive
out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out
hate, only love can do that." I'm angry about the way European
politicians fell into that darkness and supported a war that
cannot lead to any solution. I'm angry about the fact that the
real wounds of this planet are not really attended to, and that
the war only distracts from them. These wounds are POVERTY and
PALESTINE and the so called "Globalisation" which
is not working at all, but continues to create deeper gaps.
I'm angry and I feel as powerless as Damiel and Cassiel in Berlin...
Sommes nous entrés dans un autre monde ? I think it is
a cheap formula to say that the world is a different one since
September 11. It is exactly the same, except that it is more
obvious what's wrong with it.
Dans ce monde là nous avons besoin
plus que jamais d¹anges gardiens? Qui sont-ils ? Les poètes,
les humanitaires, les écologistes les militants des droits
de l¹homme ou de l¹anti- mondialisation ? Les "
médecins sans frontières " D¹autres
?
Anybody who insists on the idea of change and who keeps
believing in it and fighting for it needs to raise his or her
voice today. What we need is a crusade of tenderness. The age
of self-indulgence and of "having fun" is boring me
to death. Any of these people you quote above are heroes for
me, any nurse, any doctor, any health-care worker, in short:
anybody who doesn't live his life for his own sake and pleasure,
but for some "other". I praise any poet who puts his
grief into words, I praise any monk of whatever religion who
kneels down to pray for us.
Quelles missions devraient être
confiées aux " anges gardiens " dans notre
monde ?
There's too much to do for them, but if I could assign
some special tasks, I would send a bunch of angels in support
of all activities surrounding the "Debt Release" effort.
Only if all of the rich nations give up completely and a 100%
on the loans and the interest and the interest on the interest
that the Third World owes them, these countries have a chance
to even start thinking about resolving their problems. Poverty
is the key problem of today's world, and anybody who has understood
that and has made up his mind to do something about it needs
all the heavenly protection they can get.
Qui sont nos anges déchus ?
Politicians. I can't help but thinking that they're all
(or at least most of them) out of touch with the needs of this
planet.
Comment les anges sont-ils entrés
dans ton uvre ?
They imposed themselves. I did not invite them. They
showed up and said: "Hey, movies are full of monsters and
freaks and devils and disaster. Give us a break."
Quelle importance ont-ils eu dans ton
enfance ? Te souviens-tu de lectures?
No. But I remember a child's prayer to them that gave
me a lot of comfort whenever I was scared.
Est-il vrai que c¹est un poème
de Rilke qui t¹a donné l¹inspiration première
des anges des " Ailes du désir " Que dit-il,
ce poème ?
It's not just one poem. Angels inhabit Rilke's world,
and they appear in many of his poems. And then there are all
those heart-breaking drawings of angels that Paul Klee made
during the last years of his life. They all together said: "We're
here. The Invisible is an integral and equal part of the world
to the realm of the Visible. We're suffering, because the world
is concentrating more and more on the visible, is believing
more and more in its own inventions. In the end, the world will
believe it has created itself. We're here as the reminders that
God is the only creator. That he has created above all this
incredible freedom to either love him or forget him..."
As-tu une définition personnelle
des anges ?
I just gave it to you. "Angelus" means messenger.
They're God's messenger boys. They are very discreet. They're
lovingful beyond imagination. They suffer beyond imagination.
Y avait-il dans ton choix le fait que
la présence des anges rendait tout possible du point
de vue de la caméra : Tu pouvais traverser avec le mur,
entrer dans les maisons...
That was just a nice side-effect. They needed some bonus
on the special-effect-side, so to speak, to make up for their
passivity and their lack of any biographical material whatsoever.
Comment avais-tu choisi leurs prénoms
: Damiel et Cassiel ?
I found them in a book called "The Dictionary of
Angels". "Cassiel" was the "angel of tears",
I remember, which touched me. And "Damiel" sounded
as close as possible to "Daniel".
Pourquoi avais-tu choisi " comme
maison des anges " la grande bibliothèque de verre
et d¹acier de Berlin ?
They needed a "seat", a place to come home
to. I consider the German language as my true "Heimat",
and I couldn't find a better place in Berlin than this gorgeous
building created to celebrate the power of the word. There is
no more peaceful place than a library. A church would have been
too simple. Actually, I felt that was the last place I was going
to put them. They needed to be out in the world.
Ils ne peuvent pas grand chose, finalement,
pour l¹humanité souffrante. Pourquoi ne leur as-tu
pas donné plus de pouvoir ?
I would have loved to. But it felt like cheating. The
very fact that they were there mainly to LISTEN to us seemed
enough. It meant that if we were able to listen to ourselves,
and to our conscience, we could be able to hear them, and they
could speak to us.
Cassiel ne peut pas sauver, par exemple,
un jeune désespéré qui se jette dans le
vide. Quelle est exactement sa fonction ?
As I said: He's the "Angel of Tears". His tears
are full of compassion and of love. They won't be spent in vain,
in the end...
" Les Ailes du désir "
est dédié " à tous les anciens anges
". Qui sont-ils ?
That's not quite true. The film is dedicated to my "archangels",
and I even named them: Francois, Yasujiro and Andrej. You have
seen their films. You know why they're archangels of cinema,
of the art of seeing with compassion.
Dans " si loin, si proche ",
l¹ange Cassiel se penche sur l¹épaule de Gorbatchev
qui médite. Quel sens donnes-tu à cette scène
?
I respect this man very much. Listening to his thoughts
would be one of the great privileges of an angel, I imagined.
Il y a toujours eu des anges dans les
films. Qui sont tes préférés ? Celui de
Liliom, de Fritz Lang (L¹ange dactylographe féminin)
? Celui de Théorème de Pasolini ( Terence Stamp)
? Celui de " La vie est belle " de Frank Capra ? Celui
d¹Orphée de Cocteau (L¹ange Heurtebise) ? ou
celui du " ciel peut- attendre de Lubitsch ?S.D¹autre
encore ?
You must not forget that according to Howard Hawks, "only
angels have wings".
As-tu vu le film de Claude Lanzmann,
Sobibor ? Son personnage, Yehuda Lerner, n¹est-il pas,
lui, un " ange exterminateur " ? Un esclave qui se
relève et se libère en tuant son bourreauS. Désolé.
I have not seen this film by Lanzman yet. But you can
send me a cassette in return for my effort of answering these
delicate and impertinent questions.
Les anges reviendront- ils dans un de
tes prochains films ?
To tell you the truth: They have been present in any
of my films since "Les Ailes du Désir", only
that they remained invisible. I have not shot in black and white
for a while, that must be the reason...
Te visitent-ils, si ce n¹est pas
indiscret, dans tes rêves ?
They wouldn't want me to talk about this. That's between
them and me...
En as-tu déjà rencontrés
?
Yes. Absolutely. I even managed to marry one.
